Re: The 2017/18 Calcio Thread: Part 2

[rincon]

Benevento get a goal!

[rincon]

Didn't follow Serie A properly till few years back. And definitely not during when Eriksson was managing Lazio. I was like 6

They were the ones who won Serie A.

Nesta, Simeone, Mancini, Mihajlovic, Nedved, Veron, Ravanelli, Favalli, Marcelo Salas, Boksic, S. Inzaghi, etc.

Beast of a team.

[Interman]

So Milan so far lost against:

Lazio (a)
Sampdoria (a)
Roma (h)
Inter (a)
Juve (h)

except Sampdoria, all the other losses were kinda expectable.

They played all the top teams except Napoli. Milan will probably pick up as the season progress. They will probably finish outside the top 4, but I can see them clinching 6th. The top 5 are better.

Serie A looks pretty close so far this season. a 5 horse title challenge would be awesome. hope it lasts long into the season

[rincon]

I don't think they expected to lose to Inter and Lazio. Only Juve and Napoli should be more "sure" losses when they were coming into the season. They probably expected to be at least on equal footing to Inter and Lazio. With Roma being a hopeful game. Getting 0 points from all of them is what is bad.

[Kaladin]

Benevenuto is one of the worst teams i have ever witnessed

[Robespierre]

Amazing goal by Torreira ffs

[RealGunner]

Best Serie A season I have seen tbh. Loving it.

[RealGunner]

Napoli conceded and then scored within a minute lmao. What a team

[Kaladin]

@rincon

PREMIUM SPORT:

Jorginho feels valued by TITE, more so than by Ventura. The Brazil-born star has decided to represent the Seleção. pic.twitter.com/VRrpe8zOOu

— Seleção Brasileira (@BrazilStat) October 29, 2017

[rincon]

What a ridiculous failure by Ventura. Yes, let's drive away one of the better passers in Italy to depend on 20 year olds and 36 year olds.

[Robespierre]

It is right this , he is Brazilian

[BarrileteCosmico]

I remember when Italy fans would sneer at oriundi, now they are upset when they miss out on them. Says something about the Italy team, doesn't it?

[Luca]

I remember when Italy fans would sneer at oriundi, now they are upset when they miss out on them. Says something about the Italy team, doesn't it?

Sure, when you make claims that are inclusive of all fans and not some fans and then use it to make a larger underlying conclusion about all fans, then it absolutely says something about the Italy team

[Kaladin]

BC is American, don't let him tilt you

[BarrileteCosmico]

I remember when Italy fans would sneer at oriundi, now they are upset when they miss out on them. Says something about the Italy team, doesn't it?

Sure, when you make claims that are inclusive of all fans and not some fans and then use it to make a larger underlying conclusion about all fans, then it absolutely says something about the Italy team

But this is not what I did, I used it to make an underlying conclusion about the state of the NT, not all fans. Which I think is fair, because if more fans are upset about this sort of thing than in the past then it doesn't reflect well on the talent pool itself.

[rincon]

It's different when the oriundo is Jorginho than when it is Eder. Who was complaining about including Camoranesi or Rossi? If it's a scrub you'll hear more complaints about their inclusion, if its a good pkayer you will hear complaints about the opposite.

Italy always had oriundi, you just dont hear bad things about the successfull ones.

[Luca]

I remember when Italy fans would sneer at oriundi, now they are upset when they miss out on them

???

Besides, its not like Jorginho alone would greatly improve the team. Its a national team that once snubbed Casssano from a World Cup.

It doesn't seem like there is anything Jorginho could've done to get into the Italy squad, and as brother robes said, he's Brazilian

[Robespierre]

It's different when the oriundo is Jorginho than when it is Eder. Who was complaining about including Camoranesi or Rossi? If it's a scrub you'll hear more complaints about their inclusion, if its a good pkayer you will hear complaints about the opposite.

Italy always had oriundi, you just dont hear bad things about the successfull ones.

It is not exactly true, after the Battle of Santiago (Chile 62) , Italy hadn't oriundi for much time .
Italy played that WC with many oriundi players and that was  frowned upon by Chilean Community. And that produced this.

The Battle of Santiago (Italian: Battaglia di Santiago, Spanish: Batalla de Santiago) was a football match during the 1962 FIFA World Cup, played between host Chile and Italy on 2 June 1962 in Santiago.[1] It gained its nickname from the level of violence seen in the game, in which two players were sent off, numerous punches were thrown and police intervention was required. The referee was Ken Aston, who later went on to invent yellow and red cards.[2]

It was  unsuccessful campaign that Italy didn't call up oriundi for much time.
We expected 2006 with Camoranesi to do it ... and I remember so many controversies for it.
Italy is not used to call oriundi    because  There's a tendency to avoid this.

the reclutance on Jorginho depended on it, it's always more difficult call up an oriundo than an Italian .
It is felt as a  forced choice more than ordinary .

[Luca]

I don't remember a big reaction for Eder being called @robes, or am I mistaken? Conte probably just didn't care

[BarrileteCosmico]

It's different when the oriundo is Jorginho than when it is Eder. Who was complaining about including Camoranesi or Rossi? If it's a scrub you'll hear more complaints about their inclusion, if its a good pkayer you will hear complaints about the opposite.

Italy always had oriundi, you just dont hear bad things about the successfull ones.

Rossi was different because he had been representing Italy since his youth days, but Camo did have controversy and like Robes said he was the first in 50 years. Suffice to say the majority of oriundi have not been well received.

[M99]

I remember there was controversy around Thiago Motta mainly because he represented Brazil up to around U23 level.

The amount of talent Brazil missed out on is insane. Motta, Thiago Alcantara, Diego Costa, Pepe, Deco.

Tite needs to call up Allan before he gets snapped up by Portugal or Italy.

[rincon]

It's different when the oriundo is Jorginho than when it is Eder. Who was complaining about including Camoranesi or Rossi? If it's a scrub you'll hear more complaints about their inclusion, if its a good pkayer you will hear complaints about the opposite.

Italy always had oriundi, you just dont hear bad things about the successfull ones.

Rossi was different because he had been representing Italy since his youth days, but Camo did have controversy and like Robes said he was the first in 50 years. Suffice to say the majority of oriundi have not been well received.

Rossi wasn't different except he was white and was called Giuseppe Rossi. Camo had controversy and then he won a WC and it wasn't heard again. 3/4 of the world cups were won with oriundi. Like Pozzo said back then, if they can die for Italy they can play for Italy.

@robes

Ventura calls up Eder and not Jorginho. Its hard to buy the oriundo argument. Just like Conte, he has idea of a system that's very specific. Unlike Conte's, Ventyra's is not worth losing talent over.

[Robespierre]

Next Samp jewel after Icardi , Skriniar , Schick etc

[Robespierre]

I remember there was controversy around Thiago Motta mainly because he represented Brazil up to around U23 level.

The amount of talent Brazil missed out on is insane. Motta, Thiago Alcantara, Diego Costa, Pepe, Deco.

Tite needs to call up Allan before he gets snapped up by Portugal or Italy.

50 % of Argentinian ppl have Italian origins. Infact it is easy to understand it from their surnames ( even Messi is . Batistuta crespo milito icardi zanetti cambiasso mascherano etc etc ok I stop it maybe it is even more than 50 lol).
Brazil also has high percentage.
Yet Italy has always taken few oriundi , despite the incredible chances to do it.
That explains more than everything the historic Italian attitude towards oriundi.
Motta was denigrated during his experience in Nazionale .. I remember ppl to say Montolivo deserved it more than him
Then I can' t say if it is right or not , but it is so.
Noone cares really about Jorginho to Brazil at the end

[Robespierre]

MY MAIN MAN NICOLO BARELLAAAA

[McLewis]

@ ES/Arq regarding American fans and press. Yes, you guys are certainly right. We Americans love underdogs, that's why we stick to subpar players. We are the country that gave the world the Mighty Ducks after all. As for the journos, there has really been this pervasive effort to ensure our soccer press is completely different and separate from the European football press. You can hear it even in the terminology (the term "outside back" makes me cringe like nothing else) as well as in how they interact with players and coaches. It's not good or bad, but it's rather unique and that's on purpose. I've stopped trying to reconcile the 2 sides of this spectrum.

Regarding our match with Bologna. Will take it and say thank you. That's 3 ground out wins on the trot. We Romanisti are beginning to refer to this form as binary form. All 1s and 0s. As long as the numbers are in the right spots, doesn't matter how we do it. SES' goal was a thing of beauty. It's just a shame he's such a streaky player. With sustained consistency, he could really be much better than he already is.

About Jorginho. It's the right decision honestly though I wonder how Brazil fans will view him considering how long he's flirted with playing for Italy. This really does stink of him just choosing them like he's choosing a club to play for and that's not at all what international football is about. He's either going to become their best midfielder or he'll get derided for the rest of his international career by those fans. They have long memories.

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