Zidane is a poor coach

I think there's something that needs to be done before thinking about changing managers.

We must get rid of the BBC and quickly because there's no manager in world football that can magically turn Benzema and Bale into injury-free goal scoring machines with a high work rate. The Frenchman is truly past it and Bale will never become world class with his plague of injuries. Same with Ronaldo, you'll never stop him from aging or miraculously bring his speed back.

Those three are past it, and as long as they are here, you could sign prime Sacchi and bring Cruijf back from the dead with Sir Alex as their assistant manager and the three of them wouldn't be able to do anything to improve this attack.

The frontline needs a complete overhaul and it must be done before we even start thinking about who to sign to replace Z.

who cares about Raul lol

If your entire forward line is awful, not sure what you can do. Now that Varane and Carvajal are healthy, we're solid and played well defensively and in the midfield. Navas will bolster the keeping too.

But not a single forward is capable of scoring right now. There is no "coaching" solution to this.

Well, there was a "coaching" solution to this back in july when Z had all the time in the world to sign a reliable CF and have the courage and honestly to admit that Benzema and Bale weren't good enough for this club.

Instead, he sold all his firepower, opted not to replace them and hoped that Benzema would magically turn into prime R9.

Of course I'm not blaming him for the entire fiasco but he sure as hell is to blame for a big chunk of it.

i guess when Ramos was scoring headers left and right last season it was a "coaching solution" right? or when CR destroyed Bayern in CL semis that was a "coaching solution" too?

Mourinho has been a genius and a failure every other year. Same with Conte. Carlo as well. Heck, even Pep has been called overrated and a hipster.

You guys are either complete football noobs, delusional... or just don't want to accept that football is like this. Some years, things go your way, you win trophies and the world is at your feet. Other years, injuries happen, players fall out of form and the results lag. That's the nature of the game. After 2 CLs and 1 La Liga in an incredible 18 months (quasi flawless mostly in terms of results except for a blip or two)... our team is struggling to start a season a bit.

It's all the manager's fault obviously lol.

And Zidane wanted Mbappe... in a huge way. Madrid thought it had him. But we got arrogant and assumed he'd just hang around while we tried to squeeze every last Euro for Morata... for some strange reason, Flo refused to finalize the buy until the sale was finalized. The market went crazy and the parameters of that transaction changed and we lost Mbappe. Who was available that late to buy as a proper backup? Not sure. I honestly feel like they thought Mbappe was in the bag.

I agree sports. its why I didn't want Neymar to leave barca. I actually warned that the sale would interfere with our own transfer plans and sure enough it did. M'bappe was enticed at the money and at the prospect of playing with the Nerman @ PSG whilst we were arrogant and wasted too much time. plus we didn't go for dembele in time and he got snatched up by our direct rivals. ugh...

It's not like Real Madrid didn't bother to sign M'bappe. just we didn't take it seriously enough and Nerman screwed us when he joined PSG.

Though we should have had a backup plan. Would have liked aubameyang tbh. Though I do not blame Zidane for trying out the youth. Zidane thought to trust the BBC not to wilt so soon...

sportsczy wrote:Mourinho has been a genius and a failure every other year.  Same with Conte.  Carlo as well.  Heck, even Pep has been called overrated and a hipster.

You guys are either complete football noobs, delusional...  or just don't want to accept that football is like this.  Some years, things go your way, you win trophies and the world is at your feet.  Other years, injuries happen, players fall out of form and the results lag.  That's the nature of the game.  After 2 CLs and 1 La Liga in an incredible 18 months (quasi flawless mostly in terms of results except for a blip or two)...  our team is struggling to start a season a bit.

It's all the manager's fault obviously lol.  

And Zidane wanted Mbappe...  in a huge way.  Madrid thought it had him.  But we got arrogant and assumed he'd just hang around while we tried to squeeze every last Euro for Morata...  for some strange reason, Flo refused to finalize the buy until the sale was finalized.  The market went crazy and the parameters of that transaction changed and we lost Mbappe.  Who was available that late to buy as a proper backup?  Not sure.  I honestly feel like they thought Mbappe was in the bag.

I never expected this team to win every year, because even if you sign Guardiola, or prime Rinus Michaels, this will not happen, we all understand it, it's football. You win you lose, and it's ok.

But if we are going to summarize all discussions, all arguments this way, then we might as well close this forum and end all football or sports discussion ever, and just wait for the law of sports to graciously fall on us every now and then.

this is an discussion about causality, and why we are in this predicament. why we have been so mediocre in la liga in the past 10 years. If our CL achievement truly symbolizes our greatness, then our mediocrity in la liga, this season, can't be explained.

It's always been my argument that this group of players only cares when they play a cup tie vs Bayern or the likes, when their back is against the wall and they have to muster up every single bit of concentration they have. What is left for the other days? not much, Girona can school us as much as they want. The difference between this season and the last one? in the first half last season Bale was truly awesome, and in the second half, Ramos won  games with late games headers, insane, unbelievable event that is not calculated but part of the folklore of this game.

Coaching has to be the answer to randomness. And we have had none of it.

What's funny is that we were all here hating on Mourinho, ok he was way more disruptive than Zidane is, but i still remember your own argument stating that this club, to advance its football and ability to beat good team consistently, need to find a talent coach, someone who will leverage our best players talent and help us assert way more dominance on the game. This was your argument sports, yours. Have we achieved that with Carlo, Benitez or Zidane? no, we are merely found guys who specialize in being best friends with the players.

If this coach was not Zidane that you love, you would be agreeing with me. We went through the same exercise of this when we were criticizing Benzema here, you defended him left and right with Chad and Turok, but now you have all bailed on him except for Chad, let's give him credit for that. Like i always say, you will turn too, just a matter of time.

The premise of this thread is that Zidane is a poor, non impactful coach, that just rides on his players forms while plays buddy with them, remains true. It is true now, it was true when he joined.

I agree that Zidane deserves some of the criticism... namely, I think he puts too much trust on players even i they're not performing. He will back them and back them... and then back them some more. Problem is that some of them don't deserve it anymore. He takes it too far. That's his biggest weakness imo. Knowing this, I expect Flo to be the counter to his tendency. Zidane is new so you couldn't know his tendencies. I bet you he didn't even know them. But now you do. No excuses going forward.

It typically takes difficulties/crisis to really get an honest assessment of what you're doing right and wrong. During success, the weaknesses are all covered up and/or ignored. Also, have a player in his prime like CR compensates for a whole lot of things on the attack.

My only request: Let's give Zidane a chance to address his mistakes. They're not agregious. It's not like he's been at this for years and refuses to make adjustments. This is his first time. Let's see how the season ends and what happens in the next 2 transfer windows to address our issues.

I will add that transitioning CR out is going to be brutal. He doesn't strike me as someone who will gracefully bow out lol

My biggest weakness too is that I'm too trusting, and also too perfectionist

I haven't bailed on Benz, Nick. What you on about?
I think Benz will actually outlast CR7 and Bale in Real Madrid. He will find his way eventually. Unlike the other two, he is not as reliant on his speed or his physicality to perform. Though his touch has been deserting him, sooner or later he will wake up.

As will the other two. So it is clear now that CR7 has regressed in speed. Benz is a proper elite in that when he lost his speed he adapted and just upped his technical game to compensate years ago. Cristiano Ronaldo will adapt eventually but first he must understand and acknowledge his own decline. Which is hard for proud players to recognize. It is not instant that a player can adapt to change or decline.

Zidane has inherited the pros and cons of Don Carlo who was also too trusting of his men. But it is that trust that has brought us three champions leagues. The BBC and Zidane has brought us many triumphs.

Surely Zidane and the BBC can be given a chance to fail? Sir Alex Ferguson had seasons where his efforts bore no fruit by season's end. But no one talked shit of him The impatience bothers me. This is not like the time of Mourinho damn it. We have something really good going on and it's only our front line that's misfiring.

We cannot treat this like it's football manager or FIFA. We will have seasons where we are humbled. But no y'all don't have the patience. It's not even February yet. And we have that club World Cup to attend to create a new record as we continue to set the standard and add to the legend that is Real Madrid: the first Club World Cup title defense since the formation of the FIFA Club World Cup.

Too soon to say that Barcelona has won the league after all it was only a few months ago that we exposed Barcelona for the shrimps that they are. Was that performance a deception nobody can know for sure but it happened and that cannot be changed. Barcelona have not become stronger, Real Madrid have only become complacent and in the midst of a decline.

I read on this forum that now is the time to panic. I disagree. it is a time of reflection and patience. There are still many games left and there is plenty of time for our men to make a comeback. I'm not concerned that much of what I've seen. Prior to this season we were practically stomping almost everyone in our path. While a sudden shift to a Fall From Grace is not the most pleasant experience. The times of trouble have finally caught up with us. we just have to cope for now

i agree that zidane has to be given a chance, he still has the locker room. i don't agree with a bunch of other things. the bbc, have had more than enough chances, bale can't even get mad at the club for wanting to cut its losses. benzema lol, everything benzema does now he could do 7 years ago, i'm not sure what technical ability he upped- he doesn't take set pieces, his control has not always been the best, he isn't a through pass specialist, some shots he has missed this season are even harder to miss than score. the only thing he's done well in are 1-2 passes...

and it isn't a big deal for him to outlast any of those 2 considering he's always been happy here regardless and hasn't been chasing new contracts or new adventures. its kinda like guti, he was comfortable where he was even if on the bench, ofcourse he outlasted guys like figo

zidane has seen where he's made mistakes, i expect him to correct them, i'm not one for throwing the manager under the bus after the last 2 seasons, this was his opportunity to test the veterans out for one last time without competition, i hope he knows now that the old guard has to be phased out. and honestly he should consider starting that this season, mr modern cf cannot be hidden by cr's goals anymore.....he just can't

@tito... we all know that ZZ or whomever else will get the sack if we don't win a trophy, even if it's CDR. That's how we roll.

yeah i get that, whilst i'd like him to get his chance, i'm not totally against that neither. if you don't win a title its the sack, and tbh it isn't always a bad thing, i feel it keeps the standards high at our club. its a what have you done for me lately business, its ruthless but i feel it keeps standards high, lets see how it goes

It's not a bad thing if there are better or similar options available... there aren't.  I don't believe in firing someone for the sake of it and then figuring out the next step after.

Firing Carlo to hire Rafa is the perfect example of that.

sportsczy wrote:It's not a bad thing if there are better or similar options available... there aren't.  I don't believe in firing someone for the sake of it and then figuring out the next step after.

Firing Carlo to hire Rafa is the perfect example of that.

what? so Zidane is now the best coach we can have on the market? lol

Just for the record, i don't believe that Zidane sees the flaws in his ways. If he did, he would have anticipated this situation while he was ahead, winning, and avoided being in this predicament. So no i don't buy it.

We were STRUGGLING last season around the same time, he never did anything to improve that. His response was put in Vasquez and cross cross cross, try the 352 as a one off vs sevilla, lost, said it provided tactical surprised and never used it again... I just don't buy it, he will learn when he moves on to another job and has the time to think back on the situation.

If he had any clue, he would not have gotten rid of Morata, Mariano, to trust Mayoral as a back up for Benzema. He would have fought to sign someone even as a back up plan to Mbappe.

So while you guys wait, i know what his response is going to be. he is just waiting for players to pick up form. nothing will change. the football wont get any better, even if you can point to some things that can be done better tactically.

Yeah... so he he's been a manager for less than 24 months...  has won everything and the team has only struggled a bit for 3 months...  yet you making a sweeping statement like that in terms of what he should and shouldn't have learned from his failures... and the data set of "failure" is 3 months to start a season where your so-called WC strikers can't hit the side of a barn.

Really unbelievable.

And who would you replace him with that would be available come summer? Want to see your list of "better" options.

yes i am, because you don't value a coach just with the trophies he won. Most of those trophies are not happening if he is not coaching a team with the best striker in 30 years or so in europe, the best midfield in football and Ramos the miracle on corners. he deserves no credit for how good these guys are.

If anything the fact that he has been coaching for such a short amount of time, is the reason why he can't pause he look back at what he is doing. He will do that when he gets fired or quit.

Oh i forgot to answer your question, there is to me a clear cut better option than Zidane to coach this team, Lopetegui, and it's not a lose call to me.

here we go again, lopetegui is now the fancy new kid on the block that can manage this side lol

I am not sure what you mean by "fancy new kid on the block" but i answered this question

Sportsczy wrote:And who would you replace him with that would be available come summer? Want to see your list of "better" options.

Lopetegui is who i think would be available is to me has demonstrated to be a better coach than what we have.

It's pretty clear why Tuchel hasn't taken over a new club yet.

Let's make one thing clear, we're all grateful to Z for all the trophies he has delivered, but let's not act like he's this irreplaceable genius manager.

He won those trophies thanks to a tremendous amount of luck and a roster of insanely talented footballers.

He's a great man-manager, I'll give him that. He knows exactly what to do and what to say to keep everybody happy and fired up to bleed for him (although that has turned out to be only temporary), but as far as the technical side goes, he's definitely not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

Hapless_Hans wrote:It's pretty clear why Tuchel hasn't taken over a new club yet.

nothing clear about that at all.

the reason why i mentioned Lopetegui are the following:
- he is a madrid man, someone from the club
- has experienced, coaching from castilla, Spain, youth and senior, and porto
- already coaches most of our spanish players at NT
- spanish if that wasn't obvious
- student of positional football
- has clear ideas, and implements them in the teams where he coaches: high pressing, and possession games.
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