Re: Independence for Catalunya & Euskadi

by free_cat Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:36 am

Nirgall wrote:
I think the vast majority of spanish speaker are perfectly able to understand catalan without studying it. At most they would have to spend a week or two in catalunya before they grasp most of it. I myself, the few times I've been spoken to in catalan have been able to get basically 90%. And I didn't have any previous contact with the language. I've even watched tv in catalan a couple of times and I forgot it was a different language after a few minutes.

I'm not disputing the fact that it is a language, since the only difference between dialect and language is being legitimized by a state, and from that point of view it very well could be considered one. But you would be fooling yourself if you think it is not extremely similar to spanish. As catalonian culture is extremely similar to the rest of spain. i think from a cultural, and particularly language point of view Basque country has a much stronger case for independence.

As far as economical consecuences go. i'm just applying some common sense. Catalonia would not only loose commerce with spain which at this point I'm sure most catalonian companies operate in, but would also have to start financing several institutions and services that are as of now centrally provided.

Economical activity would therefore be greatly reduced and so would be the revenue from taxes gravating that activity. Even if you get to keep all for yourself.

This is an interesting article about it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/22/economics-catalan-independence-dont-add-up

Well, it's nice that you can understand catalan well, but most spaniards can't.

As far as culture goes, it's not really that different, but what are the cultural differences between Uruguay and Argentina? Or el Salvador and Nicaragua? Or Spain and Portugal? We have a different language, different popular traditions (like human castles, dances, etc) and a different political culture based on negotiation and pact, having one of the first parliaments in Europe in the XIII century.

As far as economics, no one can't really say for sure if we will be better off or worse, however, saying that our economy will be drastically reduced it's very unlikely. As I said, Spain keeps a huge ammount of are taxes. While it's true that an independent Catalunya will have to provide new services, you have to keep in mind that currently the catalan government already provides AND pays all social services (health, education, police, firemen...), which is the biggest expenditure of a state by far. We would have to provide few more services at a small cost, and could keep the surplus.

by free_cat Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:39 am

Epoto wrote: how big is Catalunya ? and why they feel the need to get independent?
I don't think Spain would appreciate that like any other country who want to keep its unity

Catalunya is 7 milion people, bigger than Denmark.

by free_cat Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:36 pm

Catalan parties with a total representation of 87 parliamentaries out of 135 have agreed the date and question of the referendum:

"Do you want Catalonia to be a state?" If so, "Do you want that state to be independent?"

Date to be held: 9th November 2014.

Now Catalan parliament will ask the Spanish parliament to delegate the power to held the referendum.

Spanish politicians already said they won't allow it unfortunately, showing poor democratic carachter.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/12/us-spain-catalonia-idUSBRE9BB0K120131212

by Khaled Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:56 pm

Interesting, how far could this go?

by free_cat Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:09 pm

Khaled wrote:Interesting, how far could this go?

It will go all the way. There's no coming back.

by Lord Awesome Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:10 am

Culturally speaking, I think it's only the Basque region that should demand independence. It would certainly ensure the survival of the Basque Language and it's customs. Can't really say the same for Catalonia but I'm not against their independence either.

by free_cat Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:48 pm

Lord Awesome wrote:Culturally speaking, I think it's only the Basque region that should demand independence. It would certainly ensure the survival of the Basque Language and it's customs. Can't really say the same for Catalonia but I'm not against their independence either.

So, the basque language and customs are fine, but screw the Catalan language and customs?

by Lord Awesome Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:59 pm

free_cat wrote:

So, the basque language and customs are fine, but screw the Catalan language and customs?

This comment is too Black & White. Screw Catalunya? No. Like I said I'm not against Catalan independence. If Catalunya is going to be independent, then so be it, and if not, then, oh well. Same thing with the Bizcaya except I feel more in favor of their independence. But if it's not to be than maybe next time whenever next time is.

by free_cat Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:01 pm

Lord Awesome wrote:
free_cat wrote:

So, the basque language and customs are fine, but screw the Catalan language and customs?

This comment is too Black & White. Screw Catalunya? No. Like I said I'm not against Catalan independence. If Catalunya is going to be independent, then so be it, and if not, then, oh well. Same thing with the Bizcaya except I feel more in favor of their independence. But if it's not to be than maybe next time whenever next time is.

But why Basques have a right and not catalans?

by Lord Awesome Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:03 pm

free_cat wrote:
Lord Awesome wrote:
free_cat wrote:

So, the basque language and customs are fine, but screw the Catalan language and customs?

This comment is too Black & White. Screw Catalunya? No. Like I said I'm not against Catalan independence. If Catalunya is going to be independent, then so be it, and if not, then, oh well. Same thing with the Bizcaya except I feel more in favor of their independence. But if it's not to be than maybe next time whenever next time is.

But why Basques have a right and not catalans?

They both have the right. I'm just more in favor of the Basque. Too Black & White again.

by sportsczy Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:37 pm

From what i remember, didn't most of the Basques abstain from the 1978 Spanish constitution referendum? And of the minority of those who voted, wasn't the "No" vote the highest among the regions in Spain? I think that's been the crux of the issue.... most Basques believe that the constitution was forced upon them, not something they agreed to.

by Catracho Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:43 pm

Hopefully one day I can witness this in WCQ. Vote for solidarity and independence plz.

by Hapless_Hans Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:54 am

BREAKING

Lionel Messi singlehandedly stops Catalunyan Independence

Messi imposes clause to leave for free if Catalan independence affects Barcelona
While Barcelona fans had reason to sleep easy when Lionel Messi finally put pen to paper on a new contract in November, it appears that there is a caveat to consider.
Given the volatile political situation in Catalonia, it is being reported that the Argentine has planned an exit route if all goes pear shaped for the Blaugrana.
Spanish daily newspaper El Mundo's front page for Friday reveals that Messi would only remain at the club if it were part of either the Spanish, French, English or German league system.
Naturally, remaining in LaLiga would be the realistic option for Barcelona given the legal and practical issues in integrating to a distant competition. However the agreement also allows Messi to renege on his 700 million euro release clause should that not happen, and depart for free.

http://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2018/01/04/5a4eb0f5468aeb4e6e8b459d.html

by guest7 Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:37 pm

Barca fans thought I was joking when I said that Catalan independence is the dumbest thing ever rofl

I'm serious, your club stands for the worst thing that can happen to Spain

by Doc Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:20 pm

Not everyone in Catalunya region is a Barcelona fan so this is gonna be water off of a duck's back for many men and women. Also, have my doubts about the legitimacy of that clause being the messenger is Marca.

by Luca Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:12 pm

guest7 wrote:Barca fans thought I was joking when I said that Catalan independence is the dumbest thing ever

I'm serious, your club stands for the worst thing that can happen to Spain

I think you're misunderstanding what independence means

by guest7 Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:57 pm

Luca wrote:
guest7 wrote:Barca fans thought I was joking when I said that Catalan independence is the dumbest thing ever

I'm serious, your club stands for the worst thing that can happen to Spain

I think you're misunderstanding what independence means

True, should have worded it different. It's the worst thing that can happen to Catalunya rofl

by Nivash Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:00 am

Doc wrote:Not everyone in Catalunya region is a Barcelona fan so this is gonna be water off of a duck's back for many men and women. Also, have my doubts about the legitimacy of that clause being the messenger is Marca.

It's Marca reporting on something from El Mundo

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:38 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:BREAKING

Lionel Messi singlehandedly stops Catalunyan Independence

Messi imposes clause to leave for free if Catalan independence affects Barcelona
While Barcelona fans had reason to sleep easy when Lionel Messi finally put pen to paper on a new contract in November, it appears that there is a caveat to consider.
Given the volatile political situation in Catalonia, it is being reported that the Argentine has planned an exit route if all goes pear shaped for the Blaugrana.
Spanish daily newspaper El Mundo's front page for Friday reveals that Messi would only remain at the club if it were part of either the Spanish, French, English or German league system.
Naturally, remaining in LaLiga would be the realistic option for Barcelona given the legal and practical issues in integrating to a distant competition. However the agreement also allows Messi to renege on his 700 million euro release clause should that not happen, and depart for free.
http://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2018/01/04/5a4eb0f5468aeb4e6e8b459d.html

lmao, I'm pretty I said something along the lines of "If I were Messi I would put a contract clause to leave for free of independence happens". Maybe he reads GL? hmm

by Luca Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:33 pm

It's really not that far fetched. Lots of players like have clauses that will release them or set an extremely low transfer cost should their team get relegated. So, if Catalunya gets relegated from Spain, its basically the same thing.

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