Independence for Catalunya & Euskadi

Why do they want independence?

What do they gain from it?

Crimson, you have no idea of anything. Yes, catalan government asked for a bailout of 5.000 milion euros, but EVERY YEAR catalans pay 10.000 milion euros more in taxes than the state invests in catalonia.

Camp Nou massively chanted "independence" at the minute 17:14 of both halves (1714 was the year catalonia lost its independence).

TV didn't show the stands! Here a video although with poor quality. All the yellow dots, are independentist flags:



It was also a very emotive moment before the match started, when the fans chanted Barça's hymn a capella and made a whole-stadium mosaic with the catalan flag:



Some more images:

Assuming Catalonia gets their independance, whats gonna happen with the league?

Don't they want to stay in La Liga?

Surely they won't want to move.

They will form their own NT and wait for FIFA to recognize them.
And own league.

I mean right? They want independence?
Although La Liga would be soooooooooooo boring with only Atletico and Madrid

well they do technically already have a national team, as far as league goes they will probably stay in la liga


just like someone said earlier there are welsh teams in the epl

Yohan Modric wrote:Why do they want independence?

What do they gain from it?

We want to be independent for the same reason that the english people want to be indepdenent and not be a part of Germany (to say some random country). We don't need to gain anything from it to want to be independent.

However, we would most likely gain a lot of things, like power of ruling ourselves and organizing ourselves better according to our economic structures and way of doing things, which is very different from the rest of Spain, we would end the tax deficit we suffer (10.000 milion euros per year), we would be able to have national teams, we would be able to protect our language better, to improve our infraestructures, and a long etc.

ColoJunior wrote:They will form their own NT and wait for FIFA to recognize them.
And own league.

I mean right? They want independence?
Although La Liga would be soooooooooooo boring with only Atletico and Madrid

I wouldn't mind to play in a catalan league, but most likely all parties involved would be interested in catalan clubs staying in la Liga.

Today is Spanish national day (they celebrate the discovering of America and the later genocide of native americans ) and there was an anti-independentist demonstration in Barcelona. According to the police, only 2.000 people turned up to the demonstration that was held in Plaça Catalunya. They didn't even have to cut the traffic around Pl. Catalunya. And at least a couple of hundred of these 2.000 people came from othe parts of Spain (buses from Malaga, Madrid, Valencia and Aragon). Ridiculous

So, there are 1.000.000 people willing to demonstrate for independence of Catlaunya and 2.000 people willing to demonstrate against.

what about the other 6 million or something;

btw didnt know we are part of the catalonia colonisation

I don't think Cataluna will get independence. Many analysts on the news have said the same thing.

They can say whatever they like. If the majority of catalans want it, sooner or later we will.



Some pictures comparing the two demonstrations. What a difference hahaha! And the demonstration for independence could have 10 more pictures like those.

Ninis wrote:what about the other 6 million or something;

btw didnt know we are part of the catalonia colonisation

What about the other 6 milion?
To know who is in favour and who is against exactly there has to be a referendum, what we are asking.

What do you mean with "we are a part of catalan colonisation?"

That would be like Northern/Southern/etc England wanting to be independent from the rest of England.

Yohan Modric wrote:That would be like Northern/Southern/etc England wanting to be independent from the rest of England.

Scotland (Northern UK) are also seeking independence from the UK. The Scottish are due to hold an independence referendum.

I don't see why everyone here is surprised about Catalonia wanting independence from Spain. The Spanish and Catalans are different people, even more dissimilar than the Scottish are to the English!!

Just something interesting: I recall reading a book (published in 08) about how the Euro would struggle 10 years after its creation. It's amazing that the author's prediction is correct. I wish I could recall his name and the title.

Will Catalonia's economy improve if they gain independence?

What does this have to do with football?

gondov wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:That would be like Northern/Southern/etc England wanting to be independent from the rest of England.

Scotland (Northern UK) are also seeking independence from the UK. The Scottish are due to hold an independence referendum.

I don't see why everyone here is surprised about Catalonia wanting independence from Spain. The Spanish and Catalans are different people, even more dissimilar than the Scottish are to the English!!

Scotland's a country, Catalonia is a region in Spain.

Yohan Modric wrote:

gondov wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:That would be like Northern/Southern/etc England wanting to be independent from the rest of England.

Scotland (Northern UK) are also seeking independence from the UK. The Scottish are due to hold an independence referendum.

I don't see why everyone here is surprised about Catalonia wanting independence from Spain. The Spanish and Catalans are different people, even more dissimilar than the Scottish are to the English!!

Scotland's a country, Catalonia is a region in Spain.

Exactly my point, if Scotland can be a country then why can't Catalonia be one if its people wishes it ?

Geographically speaking, Scotland could have just remained another region of the Kingdom but they are a different people to the English. Just like the Catalans are to the Spanish.

United Kingdom isn't a country, Spain is.

Yohan Modric wrote:United Kingdom isn't a country, Spain is.

Yugoslavia was a country at one point as well. Whats your point exactly?

Regions have always broken away to form separate countries in the past, nothing new.

The fact that Spain is a country now, doesn't mean Catalan quest for independence is invalid.

My point on Scotland was to point out the fact Scottish people consider themselves different from the English and so have formed a separate country and they still even want more independence from the UK.

Its not as if Catalans only realized yesterday that they don't want to be part of Spain.

Yohan Modric wrote:United Kingdom isn't a country, Spain is.

so you're opposed to the independence of catalunya because Scotland is a country?

...You can't be anymore older than 14

So why doesn't every region in Spain want independence?

Yohan Modric wrote:So why doesn't every region in Spain want independence?

Some regions are satisfied with being ruled by the Spanish.

However its not just Catalonia who want nothing to do with Spain, some regions (Basque -ETA) have even resorted to armed/terrorist actions to force their independence.

Catalonia on the other hand feel they are better off without Spain and are trying to do it peacefully.


I get the feeling you are assuming Catalans are Spanish, they aren't.

If they aren't Spanish whilst living in Spain, then what are they?

Yohan Modric wrote:If they aren't Spanish whilst living in Spain, then what are they?

Well that's what Catalans are asking themselves; "what are we doing in Spain, we aren't Spanish, we can cope on our own and can make our own decisions".

I guess that answers your questions to why they want independence.

As a finnish person I can relate a bit to the situation in Catalunya since Finland hasn't been an independent country for that long. This obviously makes be biased for their cause (despite being a madrid fan). They (Catalans) have their own language, culture and history. They were a country before the "today's Spain" too. If Catalans want independence, they should receive it.

However achieving independence isn't always a simple and / or easy process. If they truly want it, they might have to make some sacrifices in the long run. I think Spain will do everything in its power to keep Catalunya a part of Spain.

Still I hope for the best to the catalonian people and hope that they make the right decision for themselves.

gondov wrote:I get the feeling you are assuming Catalans are Spanish, they aren't.

I've been evading this topic, its too loaded. However this is just wrong.

Catalans are Spanish in every geopolitical sense, under Spanish law, every person that is born in Spain (Catalonia is a region of Spain, yes it is) and has one parent that was born in Spain automatically receives Spanish nationality. There is no such thing as Catalan nationality because Catalonia is not a country.

Some regions are satisfied with being ruled by the Spanish.

There is no region that is ruled by the Spanish, Spain is a representative democracy that is ruled by its own people under one federal government. Catalonia is part of that country, and has representation in that same government, yes, like other regions in Spain, Catalonia is largely autonomous. However, that does not mean it is subjugated by another head of state in which Catalonia pays tribute. Revolutions in colonies all over the world were started because the colonies themselves had no representation in government and were ruthlessly exploited for the mother nations sake. Catalonia has none of that. And no, paying 19.49% of federal tax and receiving back 14.03% is not exploitation.

Besides from those facts, i just don't understand what benefits can come out of independence, looks to me like a few that are leading the masses. Lets break it down.

I don't think its about either the language or the culture. According to the last Catalan language census, most Catalans prefer and use Spanish before Catalan, policies to increase Catalan use, such as forcing movie theaters to translate movies into Catalan have not been well received. Besides, if Catalonia gained independence it would take centuries for people to stop speaking Spanish, even if it could be done at all. The culture is different? Of course, every country has different cultures for different regions, yet few countries want to splinter themselves.

Is it the politics? It might be, however there is easier and less painful ways of achieving these goals, such as exercising your democratic rights to chose the rulers you wish for yourselves. But what if everyone else is after you? I doubt it, Basques have the same griefs and make some of the same arguments Catalans do.

So what is it then? Is it the bad blood because of the Franco dictatorship? This is my best guess, yes that was pretty bad for everyone. Is it really worth it to go of as a separate country just because of some rifts a dictator caused? Can these wounds not be mended?

Catalonia is in need of a bailout, is this really the best time to go their separate ways?