Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 2

[Blue Barrett]

I've been rather vocal in general on my general dislike for the Nolan trilogy and the previous films were also ultimately poor representations of the character, though coming when they did they were closer to the contemporary comic take on him than modern ones have been (gotta love the late 80s and 90s EXTREMEEEEE). Even then, the Tim Burton Batman films at least never felt as though they were embarrassed by their source material.

Fair enough then. Because I feel like one can't give the other movies a pass for Batman killing criminals and then decide to criticize this one for doing the same. There's a good explanation for why they went that route and how I think it'll be by the JL movie but I'll just leave it at that.

[M99]

Civil War social media embargoes lifted tonight. Reviews on Wednesday.

Jesus, will have to be wary of spoilers for a whole month.

[Freeza]

Civil War social media embargoes lifted tonight. Reviews on Wednesday.

Jesus, will have to be wary of spoilers for a whole month.

Ballsy move tbh. They must really believe the hype can sustain for 3 weeks. I would've waited until maybe 10-7 days before, but their brand is too strong for it not to be a hit.

Also, they must be getting great feedback to lift it so soon. So I'm not worried anymore. Also stopping watching more footage. Seems like they've learned from BvS's failured in that department.



Also, Dr. Strange trailer this tuesday.

[M99]

Watched Batman V Superman today.

Its not bad. It had its moments. The opening is perhaps the best opening to any comic book films. The action scenes looked beautiful, superb in Imax and was worth the ticket price alone. I nearly cried when Wonder Woman appeared and the GOAT theme kicked in. Affleck and Gadot were amazing, Affleck was The Batman. Gadot nearly stole the show at the end.

Having said that it was not that good either. Cavill is good but once again this performance of a dark, brooding Superman did not win me over. I always hated the casting of Eisenberg as Lex Luthor and did not like him at all here. Was like a combination of Mark Zuckerberg and a poor man's Riddler The problems with the pacing, editing and characters are well documented, I'm not gonna repeat them. The dream sequence, email scenes were incredibly jarring, felt like Thor cave scene in Avengers 2. The movie was a mess which got saved by the action and acting from Gadot and Affleck.

I welcome the overwhelmingly negative press and reactions to the movie even though I may not agree with all of it. This should have been the best superhero movie ever, it was goddamn Batman and Superman and instead we got and okay film. If Justice League is of this quality I will be really depressed. We should be demanding much better.

[Valkyrja]

https://twitter.com/AlexRWelch/status/718684560767066112

[McLewis]

Watched Batman V Superman today.

Its not bad. It had its moments. The opening is perhaps the best opening to any comic book films. The action scenes looked beautiful, superb in Imax and was worth the ticket price alone. I nearly cried when Wonder Woman appeared and the GOAT theme kicked in. Affleck and Gadot were amazing, Affleck was The Batman. Gadot nearly stole the show at the end.

Having said that it was not that good either. Cavill is good but once again this performance of a dark, brooding Superman did not win me over. I always hated the casting of Eisenberg as Lex Luthor and did not like him at all here. Was like a combination of Mark Zuckerberg and a poor man's Riddler The problems with the pacing, editing and characters are well documented, I'm not gonna repeat them. The dream sequence, email scenes were incredibly jarring, felt like Thor cave scene in Avengers 2. The movie was a mess which got saved by the action and acting from Gadot and Affleck.

I welcome the overwhelmingly negative press and reactions to the movie even though I may not agree with all of it. This should have been the best superhero movie ever, it was goddamn Batman and Superman and instead we got and okay film. If Justice League is of this quality I will be really depressed. We should be demanding much better.

Do you put more or less weight of the movie's shortcomings on Zack Snyder or do you think David S. Goyer and Chris Nolan deserves more or an equal portion of that type of blame for how unsuccessful this has been? I personally agree with you on the visual aspects of the movie. It was extremely well shot, especially in IMAX.

I ask though because your criticisms are very similar to what people said, perhaps far less haltingly, about Man of Steel. I would say the pacing and balance of that film was even more uneven than this one and it was written by not only Goyer, but Chris Nolan as well.

When you have a team of Snyder, Goyer and Nolan writing, producing, and directing movies like these 2, the expectations should be high and criticism particularly scathing when those expectations aren't met so i don't think you'll see much disagreement.

I find it ironic that independently, these guys have all crafted some really good material (Watchmen/300 for Snyder, Da Vinci's Demons for Goyer, and of course the Batman Trilogy for Nolan), but can't seem to really bring it all together collectively. I also think it's incredibly telling that the often derided Superman Returns movie did far better with one of Kevin Spacey's worst ever roles, a uber wooden Brandon Routh and a simply boring Kate Bosworth with Bryan Singer () at the helm, than either of these efforts, at 76% from Rotten Tomatoes.

Maybe the fix for the Justice League series is for one of these 3 to make way.

[Freeza]

Nolan had absolutely nothing to do with this movie, so I wouldn't blame him. Blame falls on Snyder and Goyer. Editing and pacing is a 100% Snyder's fault.

They knew the reaction the film would have beforehand. That's why they fired Goyer and started making somewhat lighter scripts. Wanted Snyder to go, but will probably not happen any time soon.

Luckily Affleck will most likely make the Batman movie.

[McLewis]

Well Nolan did co-write Man of Steel which established Cavill's stiff, uninspiring Superman/Clark Kent that didn't appear to get any better when sharing the screen with Affleck's Batman, which was a major complaint among the critics from a character development perspective. Nolan may not be directly to blame for BvS, but I don't think it's a stretch for there to be an indirect correlation there based on his work with Man of Steel.

[Freeza]

Well Nolan did co-write Man of Steel which established Cavill's stiff, uninspiring Superman/Clark Kent that didn't appear to get any better when sharing the screen with Affleck's Batman, which was a major complaint among the critics from a character development perspective. Nolan may not be directly to blame for BvS, but I don't think it's a stretch for there to be an indirect correlation there based on his work with Man of Steel.

Nolan didn't co-write anything. He was a producer and came up with the story with Goyer, who wrote it by himself.

But Nolan def had some say in the tone. But I can't say anything bad about the story in Man of Steel.

[McLewis]

Well Nolan did co-write Man of Steel which established Cavill's stiff, uninspiring Superman/Clark Kent that didn't appear to get any better when sharing the screen with Affleck's Batman, which was a major complaint among the critics from a character development perspective. Nolan may not be directly to blame for BvS, but I don't think it's a stretch for there to be an indirect correlation there based on his work with Man of Steel.

Nolan didn't co-write anything. He was a producer and came up with the story with Goyer, who wrote it by himself.

But Nolan def had some say in the tone. But I can't say anything bad about the story in Man of Steel.

This is what's tripping me up about that though:

Spoiler:

Now granted, there's an "edit" link on that same page meaning anyone could've put his name there, but I see what you're saying now as multiple sources said the Nolan had a good amount of say in the story, but it was Goyer who was largely responsible for character development.

[Freeza]

Yeah Goyer wrote the most things, which is where the problems come from. Snyder has also never been good at cutting movies, his best movies have all been the extended version which doesn't cut it in cinemas.

Hopefully Terrio has been able to do more with the Justice League script as it must easier for him to write from scratch than rewriting Goyer's script.

Nolan had final say in everything on Man of Steel though, I think, so he signed off on the killing of Zod etc. But he hasn't had anything to do with BvS.

[M99]

Yeah I don't think Nolan had much to do with writing of both of the films. I blame Snyder and Goyer both, Snyder is 100% accountable for the shoddy pacing and editing. Goyer for the characters.

On the whole "Martha" thing, I get the idea behind it but the execution was terrible lol. I felt both Batman and Superman were very irrational in the film. A simple 2 minute conversation would have stopped them from fighting. Also, how does the greatest detective in the world not figure out Superman did not kill anyone in Africa, Superman does not use guns

[Freeza]

Yeah I don't think Nolan had much to do with writing of both of the films. I blame Snyder and Goyer both, Snyder is 100% accountable for the shoddy pacing and editing. Goyer for the characters.

On the whole "Martha" thing, I get the idea behind it but the execution was terrible lol. I felt both Batman and Superman were very irrational in the film. A simple 2 minute conversation would have stopped them from fighting. Also, how does the greatest detective in the world not figure out Superman did not kill anyone in Africa, Superman does not use guns

No one ever said Superman killed anyone in Africa. So I don't get your point in that.

[M99]

Yeah I don't think Nolan had much to do with writing of both of the films. I blame Snyder and Goyer both, Snyder is 100% accountable for the shoddy pacing and editing. Goyer for the characters.

On the whole "Martha" thing, I get the idea behind it but the execution was terrible lol. I felt both Batman and Superman were very irrational in the film. A simple 2 minute conversation would have stopped them from fighting. Also, how does the greatest detective in the world not figure out Superman did not kill anyone in Africa, Superman does not use guns

No one ever said Superman killed anyone in Africa. So I don't get your point in that.

Superman is blamed for the massacre in Africa despite everyone being killed with bullets or bombs.

Batman came of to me as quite gullible in the film.

Spoiler:

[Freeza]

Yeah I don't think Nolan had much to do with writing of both of the films. I blame Snyder and Goyer both, Snyder is 100% accountable for the shoddy pacing and editing. Goyer for the characters.

On the whole "Martha" thing, I get the idea behind it but the execution was terrible lol. I felt both Batman and Superman were very irrational in the film. A simple 2 minute conversation would have stopped them from fighting. Also, how does the greatest detective in the world not figure out Superman did not kill anyone in Africa, Superman does not use guns

No one ever said Superman killed anyone in Africa. So I don't get your point in that.

Superman is blamed for the massacre in Africa despite everyone being killed with bullets or bombs.

Batman came of the me as quite gullible in the film.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[M99]

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/captain_america/captain_america_civil_war/the-first-reactions-to-captain-america-a137275

I don't pay much attention to Twitter reactions as I said before but I'm listing a few key bullet points if any of you are interested.

Everyone saying the movie is great. Some say its the best MCU movie so far, some saying its good but not as good as Winter Soldier which had a more cohesive plot.

Tom Holland as Spiderman and Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther receiving overwhelming praise.

Airport fight scene is nuts, perhaps the best fight scene out of any superhero movie.

Zemo continues the trend of disappointing villains. This one disappointed me the most. Get your shit together on villains MCU.

Spiderman does feel a bit shoehorned in the film but he still is one of the best parts of the movie. Tom Holland is just amazing as Peter Parker and Spiderman.

[M99]

This better be in her movie too.

[alexjanosik]

Yeah I don't think Nolan had much to do with writing of both of the films. I blame Snyder and Goyer both, Snyder is 100% accountable for the shoddy pacing and editing. Goyer for the characters.

On the whole "Martha" thing, I get the idea behind it but the execution was terrible lol. I felt both Batman and Superman were very irrational in the film. A simple 2 minute conversation would have stopped them from fighting. Also, how does the greatest detective in the world not figure out Superman did not kill anyone in Africa, Superman does not use guns

Precisely what bugged me too. Zero rational and build to the fight.
I hope DC dont go the Marvel route and start churning out the same fare. Dark movies are fine. They just need better stories (with a bit more depth).

[LeVersacci]

Watched it again yesterday with a tinder girl

12/10

Still best comic movie ever

[McAgger]

This better be in her movie too.

So I listened to this on repeat yesterday on full blast during my workout. Goddam, it felt good. The track was peaking at the right times.

[LeVersacci]

listen to the whole BvS OST you pos

[Freeza]

This is my World is still my favourite track. I cry every time, so beautiful.

[M99]

Yeah I don't think Nolan had much to do with writing of both of the films. I blame Snyder and Goyer both, Snyder is 100% accountable for the shoddy pacing and editing. Goyer for the characters.

On the whole "Martha" thing, I get the idea behind it but the execution was terrible lol. I felt both Batman and Superman were very irrational in the film. A simple 2 minute conversation would have stopped them from fighting. Also, how does the greatest detective in the world not figure out Superman did not kill anyone in Africa, Superman does not use guns

Precisely what bugged me too. Zero rational and build to the fight.
I hope DC dont go the Marvel route and start churning out the same fare. Dark movies are fine. They just need better stories (with a bit more depth).

Dark movies are perfectly fine. Critics and fans alike loved the Nolan films. X Men Days Of Future Past was pretty dark but it was infinitely better than BvS. I don't know why people in this thread threw a fit on critics being Marvel fanboys and wanting comedy, romances and one liners. GOTG director had this to say

https://i.imgur.com/WkIB3WA.png

Like I said, BvS should have been the best superhero movie ever but I can name like 10-15 better out of the top of my head. Its good that the movie is a critical flop and looks likely to be a commercial flop, we need higher quality movies from DC in the future, ESPECIALLY Justice League.

[Blue Barrett]

RG, I think you mean David S. Goyer and Chris Terrio. Those were the two writers on the movie. Terrio was brought in to rework some parts of Goyer's original script. I'd say the script is 68% Goyer and 32% Terrio.

And yeah, Christopher Nolan had very little to do with this movie and the little input he had was as an executive producer, if I'm not mistaken. He's not even good at writing scripts. He gives that responsibility to his brother Jonathan when he's directing his own movies.

[RealGunner]

I didn't say anything

[Blue Barrett]

Apologies dunno how I thought you were McLewis

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