Re: USA gun violence thread

[rwo power]

*sighs* People could you please refrain from using full quotes of posts that are right above yours? It makes reading tedious if you have to go through the same stuff over and over again! Thanks a lot in advance!

[Unique]

I take it you mean me I do it because sometimes by the time you reply to the post above another 2-3 people have left a comment so its hard for a person to know who you are directly talking too.

[rwo power]

Well, if you notice that others have come in between, you can always edit your post and add the part (!) of the quote you refer to (full quotes are rarely needed in most cases) afterwards.

[Blue Barrett]

so what states/towns/citys would you say has the biggest problem with this kind of thing.

It's not restricted to any particular part of the US at all. Racist cops are everywhere, giving the vast majority of them who are honest and good at their jobs bad names. Even in the most liberal states like California and New York, the LAPD and NYPD have some of the most notorious histories of systemic racism. It happens everywhere. I would imagine it happens more in the south of the US than other region but it's everywhere all the same.

I remember being in the front seat with two of my friends in the car, black and white. The black guy was driving and the white guy was in the back seat (can't mention their names obvs). We were going to the white guy's family house for his sister's birthday. It was a suburban neighborhood and I imagine not too many black people lived there. We got stopped by a cop patrolling the area and he asked to see license and registration. Black guy asks presented that and asked if there was any problem. He didn't even respond. Went back to his car to run the license number. He came back and asked what we were doing in the area. "We're here for a friend's birthday party". "What friend?" he asked and he was staring down the black guy like the guy stole something. This was actually my first time seeing this in person. Granted it's not nearly as serious as the experience some other black people have had, it was shocking when his entire demeanor changed after he saw the white guy in the back seat. He asked the white guy "Everything okay? Do you have any problem with them?" I was shocked. Was he implying we were dangers to the white guy or we kidnapped him or something? On top of probably thinking we were in the wrong neighborhood or up to no good. Keep in mind, I'm half Latino so of course I'm not 100% white. I suppose that automatically put me out of place too but whatever. I was more concerned with the way the officer looked at the black guy like he was some kind of felon.

This is ultimately just a small example but one nonetheless. There's something wrong somewhere.

[Guest]

so what states/towns/citys would you say has the biggest problem with this kind of thing.

This country is huge. That is an impossible question to answer.

Imagine your entire country of the UK. Imagine how different it is from place to place.We have 11 states, themselves, which are larger than the entirety of that country.

[Unique]

I asked that because in England the population of black people is more in the citys and the outskirts. you don't see many black familys in the country side. I thought maybe places like LA or new York might have seen more problems like this.

[Guest]

Black people usually live around cities over here too, but the state with the largest black population, Mississippi, is very rural thanks to its agricultural/plantation past. Many places around the south where blacks still live in rural areas.

There was a movie about a town, less than an hours drive away from where I live, that was still having segregated proms until a few years ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/arts/television/review-southern-rites-an-hbo-documentary-on-the-killing-of-a-young-black-man-in-rural-georgia.html?_r=0

[Blue Barrett]

I think there's generally a much larger percentage of poor black people in the US than there are poor black people. In other words, if you go into a "poor neighborhood", it's very likely to be predominantly black. Which in a way leads back to my earlier post about cops going into these neighborhoods to make up their monthly quotas.

[Guest]

Only in certain areas.

The vast majority of this country, no matter race, are poor. Over half of American workers made less than 30k last year:
Goodbye Middle Class: 51% Of All American Workers Make Less Than $30,000 A Year

You go across America and the vast majority of people live in small areas with a walmart, trailer parks...ec and are dirt poor really. Very few black people there.

The discrepancy are in cities, where rich professionals live in nice areas, and poor minorities are forced to live in areas with MLK blvd, which is almost always the most poor and dangerous area of the city.

[Unique]

why would you say that poor neighborhoods have mostly black familys living in them. is it by choices they make or by design. in England a poor neighbourhood is a poor neighbourhood. it is made up of blacks and whites. in England people can work hard and make a good life or do nothing and live poor. that's goes for blacks and whites.

[Blue Barrett]

Actually, you're right, Betty La Fea. My mistake on that. Especially considering the country is almost 70% white.

Which is why it's frustrating when these politicians keep raising taxed on the poor and cutting taxes for the rich. It's inhumane. And that's what Trump and Clinton are going to do(no, I don't believe for a second she's going to make good on her pandering promises about increasing taxes on the rich).

I guess I should stop there. This is a gun violence thread. I'm going off topic.


And let me correct myself on that, Unique, I was speaking in terms of the percentage of people between both races who are poor. But going by sheer numbers, yes, majority of the poor people are probably white.

On your point about "anybody can make it", while that is largely true, there are more barriers black people face in society that tends to keep them poor.

I posted something earlier about some companies throwing your resume out in the bin if they see you have a "black name" and know you're black. Others just for some reason only hire black people so they can say "oh we don't discriminate" but when it comes to moving higher up the food chain in these companies, it's another thing entirely. The most favorable position you can be in in America is to be a white male. Because even white females (while they don't suffer nearly as much barriers in corporate America) face challenges too. Which is why you still hear terms like "first female x", "first female y", "first black x", "first black y". It's not because they're not qualified. They just have to prove themselves extra hard to reach such positions. I couldn't tell you why it's that way because some of the bosses in this companies aren't necessarily flat out racist but they do have racial bias (even subconsciously sometimes) whether they admit it or not.

Fact is, it's not a level playing field for everybody.

[Unique]

well tbh mate if that's true then its a sad state of things.

[Guest]

The resume thing is very true.


That is why I am a big supporter of Affirmative action when even though I, as an Asian male, feel most of the brunt of it.

I'll gladly play the game on hard mode to give everybody else a chance at a piece of the pie.

[rwo power]

Often they've tried to make up the difference with other taxes, such as increased sales taxes

I think I just had a great idea that would a) help the US raise money via taxes and b) would make is far less desirable to own guns. Set up a weapon possession tax, that is everybody has to pay a yearly tax for each gun they own, and they have to carry the tax receipt with them if they want to carry their gun to prove they paid it, otherwise the weapon would be confiscated. ^^

Oh and while we're at it, what about a mandatory weapons liability insurance so that any person or other damage caused by accidental handling of the weapons will be covered. This would both help possible victims plus make weapon ownership even more expensive.

[Moondoggie]

I think I just had a great idea that would a) help the US raise money via taxes and b) would make is far less desirable to own guns. Set up a weapon possession tax, that is everybody has to pay a yearly tax for each gun they own, and they have to carry the tax receipt with them if they want to carry their gun to prove they paid it, otherwise the weapon would be confiscated. ^^

Oh and while we're at it, what about a mandatory weapons liability insurance so that any person or other damage caused by accidental handling of the weapons will be covered. This would both help possible victims plus make weapon ownership even more expensive.

I'm reminded of Chris Rock's idea about "bullet control": "You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders."

After all, guns don't kill people. Bullets do.

[rwo power]

Well, if bullets would cost 5000 dollars per bullet, then it would be pretty costly for some amok gunner with an automatic gun. ^^

[Unique]

I think I just had a great idea that would a) help the US raise money via taxes and b) would make is far less desirable to own guns. Set up a weapon possession tax, that is everybody has to pay a yearly tax for each gun they own, and they have to carry the tax receipt with them if they want to carry their gun to prove they paid it, otherwise the weapon would be confiscated. ^^

Oh and while we're at it, what about a mandatory weapons liability insurance so that any person or other damage caused by accidental handling of the weapons will be covered. This would both help possible victims plus make weapon ownership even more expensive.

I'm reminded of Chris Rock's idea about "bullet control": "You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders."

After all, guns don't kill people. Bullets do.

and knifes forks and spoons make people fat.

[Moondoggie]

After all, guns don't kill people. Bullets do.

and knifes forks and spoons make people fat.

No, they don't. Nobody swallows knives, forks and spoons. They swallow food. But bullets do tear holes in people's bodies and kill them.

[Art Morte]

For those who say the police shoot only black people, here's a video of them shooting a white teenager:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/13/body-camera-footage-released-dylan-noble-police-shooting

Skin colour isn't the issue. The issue is these idiots not doing what the officers tell them to. Another one here who is just asking to be shot.

[Blue Barrett]

No one ever said the police shoot only black people. The argument is and has always been that their victims are mostly black people. At a disturbingly disproportional rate.

Here's a former police officer confirming the bias
http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer


Oh and here's another officer being scolded for not targeting minorities and being punished because he was fair and looked at everyone including white people. It's a recording.
http://www.complex.com/life/2016/07/partial-recording-cop-pressured-superiors-racially-profile

"You’re like the fire department. You’re just waiting. The proactive is not there... putting your hands on a limited amount of people and not the right people,"


What's amazing is that white people weren't even talking about Dylan Noble. It was the same Black Lives Matter activists who are currently being antagonized and called a "hate group"/"terrorist group" that brought Noble's story to light and made the video go viral.

[DuringTheWar]

1.The victims aren't mostly black people, that is demonstrably false.
2. Yes it is disproportionately black people, until you normalise for crime rates, rates of resisting arrest, rates of cop killing, etc.

Inb4theyoungturks

[rwo power]

Skin colour isn't the issue. The issue is these idiots not doing what the officers tell them to. Another one here who is just asking to be shot.

For me it appears more that there are too many guys in the US police who are much too trigger happy (and it seems to be mostly guys - I cannot remember I heard of many police women who kill people they try to arrest).

I mean, how often do you hear about people being shot dead by German police?

I found some stats from 1992 to 2012, and according to these, there were 8 persons killed and 20 persons injured with guns by police officers in Germany in 2012. The highest number killed were 21 persons in 1999, the lowest number 3 persons in 2003.

Source: http://schusswaffeneinsatz.de/Statistiken_files/Statistiken_1.pdf

[Blue Barrett]

@DuringTheWar

But the Young Turks always show you facts

I'm not even gonna use anything from them and I've never done that in this thread.

But here:

African-Americans don't use drugs at a higher level than whites but "wind up going to prison six times more."
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/jul/13/van-jones/van-jones-claim-drug-use-imprisonment-rates-blacks/


"African-Americans are more likely to be arrested by police and sentenced to longer prison terms for doing the same thing that whites do."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/26/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-blacks-more-likely-be-arreste/

And here's a little more of your "black people commit more crime" talk analyzed
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/nov/26/rudy-giuliani/giuliani-black-and-white-people-charged-murder-are/


I've given you links with extensive facts to back their homework up. You've thrown out theories repeatedly in this thread with no substantial evidence, yet you say it's "demonstrably false". I want to see you tell me Politifact is a biased source.

And before you comment further, take a little bit of time to go through the information in each of those links then come back to this thread.

[Blue Barrett]

Here's something with a more light hearted tone turning the tables on that argument
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kerry-coddett/white-on-white-crime-an-u_b_6771878.html

And here's a little cherry on top for the race-on-race crime chatter
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/23/donald-trump/trump-tweet-blacks-white-homicide-victims/

[Unique]

After all, guns don't kill people. Bullets do.

and knifes forks and spoons make people fat.

No, they don't. Nobody swallows knives, forks and spoons. They swallow food. But bullets do tear holes in people's bodies and kill them.

I left my guns and ammo at home today. came back and they never killed anyone.

[Guest]

For those who say the police shoot only black people, here's a video of them shooting a white teenager:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/13/body-camera-footage-released-dylan-noble-police-shooting

Skin colour isn't the issue. The issue is these idiots not doing what the officers tell them to. Another one here who is just asking to be shot.

Then why don't officers in your country shoot people who don't listen to them?

Why should our country, built on freedom from tyrants, have to deal with such a case?

Finland police fired 6 bullets in all of 2013. Why is that the case? Are people just magically smarter in Finland? That can't be the case because we lead the world in invention and innovation.

I feel its really easy to sit back, with a grin, and say there is no issue and people are just idiots when you don't have to deal with a militarized police force

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