Ibra could earn over £483,000 per week at united

How about we talk about the UCL now? A player of Zlatan's talent is going to end his career without a single one of these trophies. For that does all the blame lie with his team mates, his coaches and fate? Or some of the blame goes to the player as well? If the latter is true then what do you think Ibra can be blamed for and/or what do you think he lacks?

Some blame can fall at his feet in the CL, absolutely.

But any suggestions that he could have done more on a National team level are ridiculous. Really, really ridiculous.

messixaviesta wrote:How about we talk about the UCL now? A player of Zlatan's talent is going to end his career without a single one of these trophies. For that does all the blame lie with his team mates, his coaches and fate? Or some of the blame goes to the player as well? If the latter is true then what do you think Ibra can be blamed for and/or what do you think he lacks?

Said this before but while he does deserve blame a lot of his CL career is really lies at the feet of his team.

I don't mean the players, just that usually when a team buys Ibra they build the whole team around him and while that works against league opponents. In the CL when you build everything around him you shouldn't scratch you head and wonder when he can't bring it home by himself.

A lot of the time in the CL his team basically ask him to do it all and not take responsibility because that's what they had been doing all year.

It's a team game after all, even with Messi and Ronaldo they always had team mates stepping up in key moments to win the CL that's never happened with Ibra's teams.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:How about we talk about the UCL now? A player of Zlatan's talent is going to end his career without a single one of these trophies. For that does all the blame lie with his team mates, his coaches and fate? Or some of the blame goes to the player as well? If the latter is true then what do you think Ibra can be blamed for and/or what do you think he lacks?

Said this before but while he does deserve blame a lot of his CL career is really lies at the feet of his team.

I don't mean the players, just that usually when a team buys Ibra they build the whole team around him and while that works against league opponents. In the CL when you build everything around him you shouldn't scratch you head and wonder when he can't bring it home by himself.

A lot of the time in the CL his team basically ask him to do it all and not take responsibility because that's what they had been doing all year.

It's a team game after all, even with Messi and Ronaldo they always had team mates stepping up in key moments to win the CL that's never happened with Ibra's teams.

Interesting point which immediately brings to mind the next question. Why would the individual reliance on Ibrahimovic be even more than on Messi and Cristiano?

What are these absurd posts about his NT career.

"He did nothing of note"

The man scored 62 goals for Sweden. 62.

Thats more than any Italian player has ever scored.
Thats more than any brazilian has ever scored except for Pele (77) and tied with Ronaldo (62).
Thats more than any Argentinian has ever scored too.

And he did it with scrub teammates from lower leagues. It is an incredible record. One of the most prolific goalscorers in NT of all time.

messixaviesta wrote:

Interesting point which immediately brings to mind the next question. Why would the individual reliance on Ibrahimovic be even more than on Messi and Cristiano?

That is a good point now.

This is all opinion from me. Cristiano is pure goalscorer, its been years since he did much else. There are creators and other finishers in his teams so if he is not stepping up to score, his teammates can make things happen. Ozil, Di Maria, Bale, Benzema, etc.

Messi had the all-star cast behind him in the Pep era. Later the team became as dependent on him as Ibra teams. And the difference was noticeable. It was Messi or nothing for a while. Now with Neymar and Suarez Barca are on a higher level and can make things happen again without Messi.

Ibra except for his time at Barca has been asked to do most for his teams. At Inter and Milan he was the attack. At Juve he wasn't but he was very young. Then at PSG again the team was 100% built around him. No AM, no particularly creative wingers since Cavani was the LW. He is always played as bacially the AM and the CF at the same time. Its a ton of responsibility in the team.

Think it comes down to clubs. If Ibra was at Madrid or still at Barca he wouldn't be the be all and end all of the team.


Big difference being a WC player surrounded by WC players I.E Madrid-Barca sides to being relied upon at the likes of Milan and a newly found PSG side.

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Think it comes down to clubs. If Ibra was at Madrid or still at Barca he wouldn't be the be all and end all of the team.


Big difference being a WC player surrounded by WC players I.E Madrid-Barca sides to being relied upon at the likes of Milan and a newly found PSG side.

Messi had the throne at Barca from a pretty young age (ever since the decline of Ronaldinho). With Messi there anyone joining Barca no matter how good would not get the throne. On the other hand the throne at Madrid remained empty until Cristiano joined in 2009. At the same time Ibrahimovic joined Barca. I wonder how life would have been if Ibra had joined Madrid before Cristiano had reached there. Or let's make it even simpler. What if he hadn't left Inter Milan in 2009 and got Wesley Sneijder in his career best season to play behind him? So many what ifs whose answers we will never know. Coming to PSG they had all the money on earth. So is it Blanc's fault that he never provided Ibra with sufficient creativity around him? Was the signing of Cavani a problem since they had to play him because of his exorbitant fee as opposed to playing a more creative player there? Then again does Ibra even play at his best when someone else is the main creator in the team instead of him? It seems like he just needs to be at the center of everything in order to be at his best. Ariggo Sachchi made an excellent comment when Barcelona purchased him - "You have bought the best individual player in the world but he does not fit into a team."

rincon wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

Interesting point which immediately brings to mind the next question. Why would the individual reliance on Ibrahimovic be even more than on Messi and Cristiano?

That is a good point now.

This is all opinion from me. Cristiano is pure goalscorer, its been years since he did much else. There are creators and other finishers in his teams so if he is not stepping up to score, his teammates can make things happen. Ozil, Di Maria, Bale, Benzema, etc.

Messi had the all-star cast behind him in the Pep era. Later the team became as dependent on him as Ibra teams. And the difference was noticeable. It was Messi or nothing for a while. Now with Neymar and Suarez Barca are on a higher level and can make things happen again without Messi.

Ibra except for his time at Barca has been asked to do most for his teams. At Inter and Milan he was the attack. At Juve he wasn't but he was very young. Then at PSG again the team was 100% built around him. No AM, no particularly creative wingers since Cavani was the LW. He is always played as bacially the AM and the CF at the same time. Its a ton of responsibility in the team.

Some very good points. Largely agree.

rincon wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

Interesting point which immediately brings to mind the next question. Why would the individual reliance on Ibrahimovic be even more than on Messi and Cristiano?

That is a good point now.

This is all opinion from me. Cristiano is pure goalscorer, its been years since he did much else. There are creators and other finishers in his teams so if he is not stepping up to score, his teammates can make things happen. Ozil, Di Maria, Bale, Benzema, etc.

Messi had the all-star cast behind him in the Pep era. Later the team became as dependent on him as Ibra teams. And the difference was noticeable. It was Messi or nothing for a while. Now with Neymar and Suarez Barca are on a higher level and can make things happen again without Messi.

Ibra except for his time at Barca has been asked to do most for his teams. At Inter and Milan he was the attack. At Juve he wasn't but he was very young. Then at PSG again the team was 100% built around him. No AM, no particularly creative wingers since Cavani was the LW. He is always played as bacially the AM and the CF at the same time. Its a ton of responsibility in the team.

I don't think Cristiano is a pure scorer, he can do a lot of things better. But ibra can do everything, hold up the ball, dribble players, score, assist, incredible vision. Like Messi, the one thing he lacks is movement. Which makes it easy for big teams to mark him out better. It must be said though that his teammates let him down numerous times. Messi can sometimes get away with it because he is the best but even he gets caught out with that flaw (no movement or runs).