Is Neymar killing the market for SA players??

The Franchise wrote:Leandro relies on service, without it, he doesnt impact the game.

Neymar is a gamechanger, he has many different skills which nobody wants to talk about like finishing and even pass. To say his haircut is in anyway altering his price is an insult to his skill.

He is worth more then Leandro and rightly so.

If he costs to much, they dont buy him, it doesnt ruin the market. He is just one player of many.

If people thought Leandro or anyone else was as good as Neymar, they would go for him instead.

Agreed most CF's do rely on service. The question isn't why is Neymar going for more, it was why is he going for twice as much. Also why is only one team looking at Damiao and almost all of Europe wants to throw 40-50 mill at Neymar.

I argued that Damiao would fit the European style of play better and his skills are needed by a lot of teams, but no where did I say that Neymar is not a great player.

tottenham offered 20M for Damiao,our president refused it.He will go in January though

Maybe European scouts are seeing real talent and ability in Neymar? Potential to become the kind of footballer than change games and define a generation?

A CF whose job is only to poach will never get that kind of attention.

Game changer matters more, players that can make something how of nothing matters.

those 40M arent just a potential, it's the ability to sell a dream and expand on it when the player tap into his potential.

Joga Bonita sells.

dnmac4 wrote:

Sir_Psycho_Sexy91 wrote:His price tag is my only problem, but that's not his fault. The rolling around after a hit is minor, future team-mates will snap him out of that. Although he is linked with us.

Agreed, being a Barca fan give me Damiao for our team over Neymar all day long. I just think Neymar needs too much of the ball and really doesn't fit our system with the other players on our team who already need the ball as well. With the service Damiao would get from Barca he would be a force and a perfect backup to Villa, he doesn't need much of the ball and when he gets it he goes strait for goal plus he would give us some height and he is good technically as well.

Neymar on the other hand is Taylor made for Madrid, I think he would kill it there if he played in Di Maria's position. There system fit's Neymar so perfectly.

Messi won't be ditching the "False 9" anytime soon barring injury/suspension. So I don't see Damiao as an option, although he is a terrific player. Neymar is quality, but I believe Barca are better off promoting from within "first". It's a lower risk when it comes to chemistry(fitting in) and it doesn't harm our funds

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Leandro relies on service, without it, he doesnt impact the game.

Neymar is a gamechanger, he has many different skills which nobody wants to talk about like finishing and even pass. To say his haircut is in anyway altering his price is an insult to his skill.

He is worth more then Leandro and rightly so.

If he costs to much, they dont buy him, it doesnt ruin the market. He is just one player of many.

If people thought Leandro or anyone else was as good as Neymar, they would go for him instead.

Agreed most CF's do rely on service. The question isn't why is Neymar going for more, it was why is he going for twice as much. Also why is only one team looking at Damiao and almost all of Europe wants to throw 40-50 mill at Neymar.

I argued that Damiao would fit the European style of play better and his skills are needed by a lot of teams, but no where did I say that Neymar is not a great player.

Well he is worth twice as much because he is twice the player. One player scores goals only when given service, the other is multi skilled and creates and scores too.

And I dont think just Spurs are looking at him, its only Spurs who have bid. There could have been alot of intrest from other clubs.

Neymar has the talent to be one of the best players in the world, thats why everyone wants him. You cant just go find another Neymar (if he becomes what his talent suggests) out there somewhere. You can however find another Leandro, we could all name probably 5 young players of his style.

Leandro would fit European footballer better? I cant say that for sure.

He is less of a risk perhaps, but that doesnt mean Neymar will struggle where he will not. I mean, if Ronaldinho was 20 years old you would say the same probably right? Leandro fits European football better. That doesnt mean too much if Neymar is as good as his talent suggests.

In the end, people are willing to pay that much for Neymar because he might one day be one of the best in the world. Leandro will never be that.

Sir_Psycho_Sexy91 wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

Sir_Psycho_Sexy91 wrote:His price tag is my only problem, but that's not his fault. The rolling around after a hit is minor, future team-mates will snap him out of that. Although he is linked with us.

Agreed, being a Barca fan give me Damiao for our team over Neymar all day long. I just think Neymar needs too much of the ball and really doesn't fit our system with the other players on our team who already need the ball as well. With the service Damiao would get from Barca he would be a force and a perfect backup to Villa, he doesn't need much of the ball and when he gets it he goes strait for goal plus he would give us some height and he is good technically as well.

Neymar on the other hand is Taylor made for Madrid, I think he would kill it there if he played in Di Maria's position. There system fit's Neymar so perfectly.

Messi won't be ditching the "False 9" anytime soon barring injury/suspension. So I don't see Damiao as an option, although he is a terrific player. Neymar is quality, but I believe Barca are better off promoting from within "first". It's a lower risk when it comes to chemistry(fitting in) and it doesn't harm our funds

Agreed, I don't think we need either I was just saying I think Damiao would be a better fit for our system then Neymar. I think Neymar would be much better off going to Madrid as there system is more individualistic.

I don't agree with the "funds" part. We have plenty of money don't let Rosell fool you, if we want to buy a player we can, Barcelona wont die as a club because we buy a couple of players, most teams in Europe are in big debt. IT's just the only thing Rosell could say bad about Laporta so he has made it his crusade.

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Leandro relies on service, without it, he doesnt impact the game.

Neymar is a gamechanger, he has many different skills which nobody wants to talk about like finishing and even pass. To say his haircut is in anyway altering his price is an insult to his skill.

He is worth more then Leandro and rightly so.

If he costs to much, they dont buy him, it doesnt ruin the market. He is just one player of many.

If people thought Leandro or anyone else was as good as Neymar, they would go for him instead.

Agreed most CF's do rely on service. The question isn't why is Neymar going for more, it was why is he going for twice as much. Also why is only one team looking at Damiao and almost all of Europe wants to throw 40-50 mill at Neymar.

I argued that Damiao would fit the European style of play better and his skills are needed by a lot of teams, but no where did I say that Neymar is not a great player.

Well he is worth twice as much because he is twice the player. One player scores goals only when given service, the other is multi skilled and creates and scores too.

And I dont think just Spurs are looking at him, its only Spurs who have bid. There could have been alot of intrest from other clubs.

Neymar has the talent to be one of the best players in the world, thats why everyone wants him. You cant just go find another Neymar (if he becomes what his talent suggests) out there somewhere. You can however find another Leandro, we could all name probably 5 young players of his style.

Leandro would fit European footballer better? I cant say that for sure.

He is less of a risk perhaps, but that doesnt mean Neymar will struggle where he will not. I mean, if Ronaldinho was 20 years old you would say the same probably right? Leandro fits European football better. That doesnt mean too much if Neymar is as good as his talent suggests.

In the end, people are willing to pay that much for Neymar because he might one day be one of the best in the world. Leandro will never be that.

Again, we have different opinions but IMO Neymar is not twice the player Damiao is, not even close. This is the point of my thread a lot of people really believe that and I cant figure out weather it's Neymar is overhyped or Damiao is underhyped.

Also some of the biggest transfer fees ever have been CF's so it's not like Damiao plays some one off position. Neymar hasn't looked great in the Brazil side when they were struggling for service as well, so it's a two way street. I have never seen Neymar pick up the ball at midfield and dribble a team and score a goal that's not him either he relys on service to an extent as well just like Ronaldo when playing for Portugal and Messi for Argentina.

We will have to agree to disagree then. As I said, I feel Neymar has the kind of talent no more then 10 players on earth have.

Leandro isnt a top 10 talent in terms of number 9's.

And you cannot say Neymar relies on service equally to Leandro, thats obviously not true.

If his entire team dont have the ball, of course Neymar doesnt have it.

However, his team could dominate the ball, but without someone actually doing something creativity-wise for him. Leandro isnt going to get into the game.

This isnt even a knock on his ability, its just about style and playing position.

He is a number 9 and thats fine, he isnt supposed to get over involved in the play. But at the same time, he is limited in the impact he can have on games. Thats only normal.

Neymar doesnt struggle when not getting service, he isnt a tap in merchant. He struggles (like every other single player) if his entire team dont have the ball.

The difference between Neymar and Damiao is like the difference between Ronaldo and Higuain

The Franchise wrote:We will have to agree to disagree then. As I said, I feel Neymar has the kind of talent no more then 10 players on earth have.

Leandro isnt a top 10 talent in terms of number 9's.

And you cannot say Neymar relies on service equally to Leandro, thats obviously not true.

If his entire team dont have the ball, of course Neymar doesnt have it.

However, his team could dominate the ball, but without someone actually doing something creativity-wise for him. Leandro isnt going to get into the game.

This isnt even a knock on his ability, its just about style and playing position.

He is a number 9 and thats fine, he isnt supposed to get over involved in the play. But at the same time, he is limited in the impact he can have on games. Thats only normal.

Neymar doesnt struggle when not getting service, he isnt a tap in merchant. He struggles (like every other single player) if his entire team dont have the ball.

I agree that Damiao needs more service but Neymar does need the ball to be effective. He plays no defense and his movement is not great either, he is great when he has the ball and is attacking and passing or shooting. Also, Damiao is not a "tap-in merchant" your the second person who said that. Look at the goal that was ruled offsides last game for brazil or when he scored against Barca and Milan or even the goal that was allowed last game for Brazil. I don't know if you are generalizing #9's as tap-in merchants or Damiao himself but I hope it's the former.

how does neymar rely on service when hes the main guy creating for both santos and the NT?....as the franchise said,he can decide a game in a snap,either assisting or scoring.remember the libertadores final?

and damiao twice the player neymar is?Neymar is twice the player damiao is at everything other than body build and heading,that includes finishing

Thats a lie. Neymar does work fairly hard defensively, especially the last 12 months.

Your saying he needs the ball to be effective, needs it at his feet..well so do most great players. Zidane did, Messi does, I could go on.

I didnt say Leandro is a tap in merchant, I said Neymar isnt.

He is a finisher, a poacher, a number 9, there is nothing wrong with that and I am not saying that in a negative context either.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:The difference between Neymar and Damiao is like the difference between Ronaldo and Higuain

Yes, I see where you're going there but I strongly disagree. Ronaldo is a grown ass man, Neymar is about half a foot shorter and way slighter then Ronaldo, that is where the questions come in about Neymar. Can he hold up? There has never been those questions about Ronaldo.

dnmac4 wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:The difference between Neymar and Damiao is like the difference between Ronaldo and Higuain

Yes, I see where you're going there but I strongly disagree. Ronaldo is a grown ass man, Messi is about half a foot shorter and was way slighter then Ronaldo, that is where the questions came in about Messi. Can he hold up? There has never been those questions about Ronaldo.

And now?

By the way, Neymar is 5 9. Cristiano is like 6 1. 4 inches.

And dont anyone remember Cristiano at Neymar's age?

He wasnt as skinny as Neymar, but he wasnt big at all either.

Not saying Neymar will get big like Cristiano, thankfully he doesnt have to, he has other skills.

Ganso wrote:how does neymar rely on service when hes the main guy creating for both santos and the NT?....as the franchise said,he can decide a game in a snap,either assisting or scoring.remember the libertadores final?

and damiao twice the player neymar is?Neymar is twice the player damiao is at everything other than body build and heading,that includes finishing

Do people read these threads or just make up what they want to hear? Where did I say Damiao is twice the player Neymar is????? All I said was Neymar is no where near twice the player Damiao is.

Also, if he is the main creative force for Brazil that is why they are struggling of late, do you remember Copa America? There was no creativity whatsoever in that team and NEymar looked very average in that tournamnet. If Brazil is going to rely on Neymar as a creative force they are in trouble that should be Ganso or Kaka all day. IF that is the case that is why they have looked so average of late. Neymar is a great talent but he should never be a teams main creative force just like Ronaldo shouldn't, that's not what they do.

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:The difference between Neymar and Damiao is like the difference between Ronaldo and Higuain

Yes, I see where you're going there but I strongly disagree. Ronaldo is a grown ass man, Messi is about half a foot shorter and was way slighter then Ronaldo, that is where the questions came in about Messi. Can he hold up? There has never been those questions about Ronaldo.

And now?

By the way, Neymar is 5 9. Cristiano is like 6 1. 4 inches.

And dont anyone remember Cristiano at Neymar's age?

He wasnt as skinny as Neymar, but he wasnt big at all either.

Not saying Neymar will get big like Cristiano, thankfully he doesnt have to, he has other skills.

Come on man, he plays nothing like Messi. And yes people are very surprised Messi holds up for how small he is. Even messi isn't as skinny as Neymar. Plus Messi has been playing in Europe since he was 12 it's different and frankly I can't believe you compared the two.

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:The difference between Neymar and Damiao is like the difference between Ronaldo and Higuain

Yes, I see where you're going there but I strongly disagree. Ronaldo is a grown ass man, Messi is about half a foot shorter and was way slighter then Ronaldo, that is where the questions came in about Messi. Can he hold up? There has never been those questions about Ronaldo.

And now?

By the way, Neymar is 5 9. Cristiano is like 6 1. 4 inches.

And dont anyone remember Cristiano at Neymar's age?

He wasnt as skinny as Neymar, but he wasnt big at all either.

Not saying Neymar will get big like Cristiano, thankfully he doesnt have to, he has other skills.

Come on man, he plays nothing like Messi. And yes people are very surprised Messi holds up for how small he is. Even messi isn't as skinny as Neymar. Plus Messi has been playing in Europe since he was 12 it's different and frankly I can't believe you compared the two.

And Neymar doesnt play like Cristiano either.

I am just saying, talking about size, height and weight really isnt right. I would think you watching Barça you would share that opinion too.

I am not comparing Neymar and Messi at all, I am simply pointing out how flawed it is to talk abouit size and weight like its a big deal.

Are we discussing how talented and different in styles those two players are, or how well they will about to Europe? because all those details about size are not too important.

For young players to be rated highly they need something special to their game. Neymar is far superior technically than Damaio for example.

I couldnt tell what is so unique about Damiao, i just saw a big guy, with good speed and under average control or movements. Not once did i felt like on the ball he would to something amazing.

He is a poacher, and maybe a talented one, but he is never going to get the kind of attention Neymar is receiving, unless he turns into a clutch player like Chicha, or shows consistency in Europe and turns into a serial scorer like Falcao.

At the moment, i dont think there is an edge to his football. He isnt a physical beast like Lukaku, he isnt tall like Llorente, he doesnt have the technical skills torres used to have, he doesnt have the speed drogba used to have etc... He is going to have to grind.

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

dnmac4 wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:The difference between Neymar and Damiao is like the difference between Ronaldo and Higuain

Yes, I see where you're going there but I strongly disagree. Ronaldo is a grown ass man, Messi is about half a foot shorter and was way slighter then Ronaldo, that is where the questions came in about Messi. Can he hold up? There has never been those questions about Ronaldo.

And now?

By the way, Neymar is 5 9. Cristiano is like 6 1. 4 inches.

And dont anyone remember Cristiano at Neymar's age?

He wasnt as skinny as Neymar, but he wasnt big at all either.

Not saying Neymar will get big like Cristiano, thankfully he doesnt have to, he has other skills.

Come on man, he plays nothing like Messi. And yes people are very surprised Messi holds up for how small he is. Even messi isn't as skinny as Neymar. Plus Messi has been playing in Europe since he was 12 it's different and frankly I can't believe you compared the two.

And Neymar doesnt play like Cristiano either.

I am just saying, talking about size, height and weight really isnt right. I would think you watching Barça you would share that opinion too.

I am not comparing Neymar and Messi at all, I am simply pointing out how flawed it is to talk abouit size and weight like its a big deal.

I brought up the size thing when he was compared to Ronaldo. They are different players and Ronaldo uses his size. Hence I know there are exceptions to every rule, but it's not great either to be so skinny if you were to venture into the EPL. I would say the same about DI Maria and Messi too. I don't think any of those three would have much fun in the EPL, watch Cesc this year, I bet he magically has an injury free year just from getting away from the Prem.

I know he most likley wont go to the EPL but if you watched the Copa America it was a surprisingly physical tournament and he didn't like it one bit and you could tell he wasn't used to it.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Are we discussing how talented and different in styles those two players are, or how well they will about to Europe? because all those details about size are not too important.

For young players to be rated highly they need something special to their game. Neymar is far superior technically than Damaio for example.

I couldnt tell what is so unique about Damiao, i just saw a big guy, with good speed and under average control or movements. Not once did i felt like on the ball he would to something amazing.

He is a poacher, and maybe a talented one, but he is never going to get the kind of attention Neymar is receiving, unless he turns into a clutch player like Chicha, or shows consistency in Europe and turns into a serial scorer like Falcao.

At the moment, i dont think there is an edge to his football. He isnt a physical beast like Lukaku, he isnt tall like Llorente, he doesnt have the technical skills torres used to have, he doesnt have the speed drogba used to have etc... He is going to have to grind.

UM, I know people don't watch Damiao much but he scored in the Copa Libertadores final too and was subbed in like the 70th minute so he scored in like 10 or 20 min. He also scored against Barca and Milan in back to back games and in the first game he ever started for Brazil he scored and should have had another.

You can only play in the games you're in and that's pretty damn good. Take my word for it, Pato wont see the field for a very long time now in a Brazil shirt.

dnmac4 wrote:\
I brought up the size thing when he was compared to Ronaldo. They are different players and Ronaldo uses his size. Hence I know there are exceptions to every rule, but it's not great either to be so skinny if you were to venture into the EPL. I would say the same about DI Maria and Messi too. I don't think any of those three would have much fun in the EPL, watch Cesc this year, I bet he magically has an injury free year just from getting away from the Prem.

I wasnt comparing them in terms of size. I was merely saying that, both Ronaldo and Neymar are players who enjoy having the ball in their feet and they enjoy running at people to create separation and space.

While Higuain and Damiao are poachers that rely on other people doing the work most of the times.

Both Ronaldo and Neymar can create goals themselves, it's taken as a constant, but it's hardly the same for the others.

Di Maria and Messi would ruin the EPL. The only problem they will have is severe brusing after games.

Cesc was injury prone because Arsenal have a horrible medical staff, if he doesnt get injured this season its because we dont have a horrible medical staff.

Neymar didnt like physicality? Meh, I just saw everyone for Brazil struggle with flow and having a good game plan. And it wasnt like Neymar has a horrible tournament, he just I would say average for him.

Anyway, we are moving off the subject.

I feel that Neymar's price is justified compared to Leandro, simple reason is I cant name 5 young players I would rather have then him.

I likely could name 10 young strikers, let alone players I would rather have then Leandro.

Thats the difference I feel in term of price.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Are we discussing how talented and different in styles those two players are, or how well they will about to Europe? because all those details about size are not too important.

For young players to be rated highly they need something special to their game. Neymar is far superior technically than Damaio for example.

I couldnt tell what is so unique about Damiao, i just saw a big guy, with good speed and under average control or movements. Not once did i felt like on the ball he would to something amazing.

He is a poacher, and maybe a talented one, but he is never going to get the kind of attention Neymar is receiving, unless he turns into a clutch player like Chicha, or shows consistency in Europe and turns into a serial scorer like Falcao.

At the moment, i dont think there is an edge to his football. He isnt a physical beast like Lukaku, he isnt tall like Llorente, he doesnt have the technical skills torres used to have, he doesnt have the speed drogba used to have etc... He is going to have to grind.

i have to disagree here,damiao is very physical,scored 36 goals in 46 games so far this season(brazil's top scorer), 1.87m,he has some technical skill and is fast when necessary.He also has good movement,like in the goal he scored for the nt.

dnmac4 wrote:
UM, I know people don't watch Damiao much but he scored in the Copa Libertadores final too and was subbed in like the 70th minute so he scored in like 10 or 20 min. He also scored against Barca and Milan in back to back games and in the first game he ever started for Brazil he scored and should have had another.

You can only play in the games you're in and that's pretty damn good. Take my word for it, Pato wont see the field for a very long time now in a Brazil shirt.

Come on dude, preaseason? not very relevant to be honest. It's good for him, he can score goals, but he is still a poacher that will need people like Fernandinho to feed him in space so he can score. He hardly warrants the same kind of attention Neymar does. It's not an insult to his talent level, just the way things are.

Well, Pato isnt a very good CF. So if Brazil is playing with a one CF formation, someone else can very much come and take his spot. But that's not because Pato isnt a good player, but because that other guy is a better fit.

Ganso wrote:
i have to disagree here,damiao is very physical,scored 36 goals in 46 games so far this season(brazil's top scorer), 1.87m,he has some technical skill and is fast when necessary.He also has good movement,like in the goal he scored for the nt.

I'm sure he is a nice well rounded package, but he has nothing in the extremes. Some team will take a bet on him and he might do well for them, kinda like Fabiano.

Thing is, if he was 1,95m and was moving like a ballerina, people would be puzzle. Same if he was fast like a sprinter at 1,87m or Ridiculously athletic.

needs an edge. I cant rate how sharp his scoring instinct is, european standards are always different. at 20M he is very well rated imo