UEFA Coefficient development for the next seasons

rwo power wrote:England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.

Yes. In my opinion that's a pretty important disadvantage.

I like this method as it's like a progressive tax on the strength of federations, but it makes sure having more teams isn't necessarily making it easier to accumulate more points. On the contrary it furthers upward (and, maybe in the case of England and Germany, downward) mobility.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

Fußball wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:No you start next season worse off than Germany as things currently stand:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html

DAT gap between GOAT Liga and the rest of the unworthy leagues:

GOAT Liga: 81.785
Bundesfodder: 63.749
Mule League: 62.034
Serie zZZzZZz: 58.939

lmao

Hapless_Hans wrote:

rwo power wrote:England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.

Yes. In my opinion that's a pretty important disadvantage.

I like this method as it's like a progressive tax on the strength of federations, but it makes sure having more teams isn't necessarily making it easier to accumulate more points. On the contrary it furthers upward (and, maybe in the case of England and Germany, downward) mobility.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

UEFA coefficients penalize having more teams in the CL because you would expect Fiorentina to do better in the EL than the CL and they award both equally. The best strategy is to actually get kicked out of the CL group stages and then continue to make it far at the EL.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:

rwo power wrote:England will have 8 teams in Europe next time. If they will all do well, everything's fine, but the minus side is that all points will be divided by 8 that season, so if one or two teams drop out early, the remaining teams have it more difficult to add substantial points.

Yes. In my opinion that's a pretty important disadvantage.

I like this method as it's like a progressive tax on the strength of federations, but it makes sure having more teams isn't necessarily making it easier to accumulate more points. On the contrary it furthers upward (and, maybe in the case of England and Germany, downward) mobility.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

UEFA coefficients penalize having more teams in the CL because you would expect Fiorentina to do better in the EL than the CL and they award both equally. The best strategy is to actually get kicked out of the CL group stages and then continue to make it far at the EL.

But all points collected by teams are divided by the number of the countries participants in Europe to constitute the points effective for the ranking, no? Not just the points acquired in CL.

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

From what I've read, the EL spot Sevilla had will be vacated - so Spain will have 5 teams in the CL and 2 in the EL.

GoonerJay29 wrote:

BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

From what I've read, the EL spot Sevilla had will be vacated - so Spain will have 5 teams in the CL and 2 in the EL.

Ah ok, thanks.

BC, don't forget that there hugely more bonus points awarded for progressing, or even just participating in the group stage, in CL than there are available for EL.
So any 'penalty' that supposedly weaker teams would have to play in harder competition would be more than counteracted by that I guess.

What I was talking about is a different thing.

Hapless_Hans wrote:BTW, will Spain have one more team in Europe too? Sevilla will enter CL as the fifth team, right? Do they still get the same number of Europa League spots? In that case, every point Spanish teams make would count for less too.

Nope. They have 5 CL teams and 2 EL teams. But of course they get a nice advantage via the additional CL bonus points.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/access2015.html

We have to save Mule league and win the EL ffs. Can't wait for Klopp to come in January and lead us to glory.

Valencia could very well still lose the play off and end up in Europa and spain would still only have 4 teams, not 5

El Shaarawy wrote:Just need a 3.1+ point advantage over England next season

That CL place awarded to the team that wins the EL really changed the game in Italy - it means that clubs are actually fighting for the EL spots and fighting again to win the EL. Napoli threw their chance away this year, but the Italians have finally seen the light. It seems to me that 1 more horrible season from the English clubs in the CL/EL coupled with another great season for Italian clubs will mean Italy gets a CL spot back at England's expense. Is that right?

Forza wrote:It seems to me that 1 more horrible season from the English clubs in the CL/EL coupled with another great season for Italian clubs will mean Italy gets a CL spot back at England's expense. Is that right?

Could very well happen, yes

tbh, the only way i can see Italy surpass England is if Roma and Lazio crash in the group stages but make EL. Juve is the only team able to garner points in the CL at the moment. Plus, those 2 will most likely crash out at the R16.

Absolutely no way Italy is surpassing England next season,not even in 2-3 yrs.

Italy's real target still remains the Bundesliga.

El Shaarawy wrote:tbh, the only way i can see Italy surpass England is if Roma and Lazio crash in the group stages but make EL. Juve is the only team able to garner points in the CL at the moment. Plus, those 2 will most likely crash out at the R16.

Well, there's no guarantee that Lazio is in the CL at this stage - and let's face it, there's a very real chance that both the Roman teams will finish 3rd in their CL group given their low seeding. Then, you've also got Fiorentina and Napoli, who are very good by Europa League standards. I expect Samp to put on at least as good a showing as Torino did last season.

The difference for me is the attitude of the clubs, not their quality. Italian upper-mid table clubs have always been of high quality relative to the rest of Europe. Now that they actually see the EL as a worthwhile venture, I expect the average points garnered each season to be much higher. Already we've seen it lift from about 11.00 to 19.00. If the same happens next season, we will likely be talking about 4 CL spots in Serie A again.

S wrote:Absolutely no way Italy is surpassing England next season,not even in 2-3 yrs.

Italy's real target still remains the Bundesliga.

In terms of co-efficient points, Italy is closer to passing the Premier League than it is to passing the Bundesliga.

See: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html

S wrote:Absolutely no way Italy is surpassing England next season,not even in 2-3 yrs.

Italy's real target still remains the Bundesliga.

That reality is very tangible next season tbh, there's only a 1.5 diff. between Germany and England. Germany have Fraudsburg, Gladbach, Schalke, Neverkusen and Augsburg. Schalke is in disarray, Gladbach and Augsburg won't cut it, Neverkusen is Neverkusen and Wolfsburg is still a question mark. However, it ultimately depends on Italian teams bettering them.

Doesnt matter.I dont expect another odd year from PL like this season.
PL's financial might will eventually prevail while the Bundesliga on the other hand are there for the taking provided Italian teams maintain the same level of consistency in the Europa League.
Basically i expect Italy to be stuck with 3 CL spots atleast for another 2-3 yrs.

El Shaarawy wrote:

S wrote:Absolutely no way Italy is surpassing England next season,not even in 2-3 yrs.

Italy's real target still remains the Bundesliga.

That reality is very tangible next season tbh, there's only a 1.5 diff. between Germany and England. Germany have Fraudsburg, Gladbach, Schalke, Neverkusen and Augsburg. Schalke is in disarray, Gladbach and Augsburg won't cut it, Neverkusen is Neverkusen and Wolfsburg is still a question mark. However, it ultimately depends on Italian teams bettering them.

Probably but it wont happen as early as next season.

One has to hope to see Bayern choke bad and Juventus to reach final again for that to happen.I'd say its pretty unlikely.
But yeah,i do expect Serie A to surpass bundesliga in the near future.

The PL's financial might will only get it so far if it's teams continue to get smashed in the EL, even if it's higher quality teams manage to get deep into the CL. (which, by the way, is still something I hate about the coefficient system)

You've also got a problem in England where the teams that have qualified for the EL genuinely have the money to mount a PL title challenge or at the very least, have the money to get into the top 4 and get themselves a CL place that way. Top 4 in PL is also seen as a more prestigious honour for these clubs' domestic fans than beating Dnipro in some second-rate European competition. The effect of this situation is, bizarrely, to create a disincentive for English clubs to compete in the EL. Added to the mix is that it is arguably somewhat more difficult for these English clubs to get their precious CL spot via EL competition. Not to mention that the EL is a huge drain on their squads - which, again, are potentially vying to win the PL title.

Whereas in Serie A, the likes of Napoli, Lazio, Fiorentina and Samp are more likely to be able to get a CL spot by winning the EL. Even though one of the above might be able to make the top 3 of Serie A once in a while, I can't imagine that this will be the case much longer. Until now the lethargic Milan clubs have been under-performing and I fully expect both of them (yes, even Inter) to re-emerge from the fiery depths of mid-table hell considering that the teams now have serious funds and a whole summer transfer window to do some pillaging.

El Shaarawy wrote:Germany have Fraudsburg, Gladbach, Schalke, Neverkusen and Augsburg. Schalke is in disarray, Gladbach and Augsburg won't cut it, Neverkusen is Neverkusen and Wolfsburg is still a question mark.

You know that such disrespect causes bad karma?

rwo power wrote:

El Shaarawy wrote:Germany have Fraudsburg, Gladbach, Schalke, Neverkusen and Augsburg. Schalke is in disarray, Gladbach and Augsburg won't cut it, Neverkusen is Neverkusen and Wolfsburg is still a question mark.

You know that such disrespect causes bad karma?

On behalf of Serie A, I would like to articulate my respect for your team the city of Hamburgers. I think that it's a tribute to German discipline and efficiency that in a city which is surely filled to the brim with delicious fast food, the club is able to field a team that doesn't consist entirely of obese players.

Forza wrote:On behalf of Serie A, I would like to articulate my respect for your team the city of Hamburgers. I think that it's a tribute to  German discipline and efficiency that in a city which is surely filled to the brim with delicious fast food, the club is able to field a team that doesn't consist entirely of obese players.

That's because the HSV is sponsored by Kühne, who are known for pickled cucumbers, salad dressings, vinegar, cabbage, vegetables and the like.

BL has a good chance to do well this time

CL -
Bayern Wolfsburg Gladback Leverkusen
EL -
Schalke Augsberg Dortmund

Pretty good if you ask me. These are the best 7 teams & Schalke-Dortmund can go deep into the EL while Augsburg does not have the looser mentality.

Gladbach is a decent team with Favre and have a good midfield and attack provided they replace Kramer & Xhaka.

Wolfsburg have a good team and they are buying guys like Kruse and will further strengthen the team.

Leverkusen also have a decent team and are getting Kramer back to further strengthen.

La Liga is so far ahead of the other 3 of the top four it really makes one wonder how the EPL is so popular. And, the EPL was so behind La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga last year it doesn't make sense., the popularity that is.
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/

Didn't realize Portugal is ahead of France lol

It goes back and forth between 4 and 5. It's that Europa league that kills Ligue 1 because nobody bothers. In Portugal, since the league is far easier, it's feasible for the teams to commit resources to that competition. So our ranking suffers.

Lille no longer being involved in Europe should help a lot since they have been an absolute disaster for years now regardless of CL or Europa. With PSG, Lyon and Monaco in CL and Marseille, St Etienne and Bordeaux in Europa... should be a good year.

Doesn't really matter anyhow. Unless you're top 3... 4-6 is the same in terms of European spots. Never going to get into top 3 anyhow so it's pretty irrelevant.